Too bad this is wholly plagiarized, 15 years out of date, and riddled with basic factual errors: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Not riddled with basic factual errors and 15 years out of date, Oops. These are the numbers put out by the Australian government themselves and some people overseas are saying that they are actually understated since a good number of crimes aren't reported.

Eastsider, my thoughts exactly although I think something, maybe even a little, might be done this time.

Sean Tully, why does anything need to be done? The guns used in this case were taken without the permission of the real owner by a mentally ill person who had found out that his mother was trying to have him committed (from CNN).

He was pushed over the edge by his mother trying to get him committed and honestly, if I had a mental illness... that might push me over the edge as well.

What I want to know is why the mother didn't have the guns locked up in a gun safe/cabinet (if they weren't) and if they were, how he managed to get his hands on them?

I should also point out that there are tons of guns floating around in society today yet only a bare >.001% of guns are used to kill people.

Thomas Sowell is a think tank hack for the Hoover Institute who is an economist by training. Not exactly an authority on fire arms other then spending a couple of years in the Marines

Great statement.. smart guy..

Amen to that Thomas, they will do anything to disarm the law abiding citizens so that we are the helpless ones. I am so sick of all the political trash half of the time the citizens don' t even know what is going on they are told after the fact!!!

Gun Control laws do have several effects:
1. They reduce the amount of time police personnel can devote to protecting assets and ?people.

2. They result in a percentage of people voluntarily obeying them, IF they hear about them, and some people never will.

3. The majority of people who would be affected will ignore these laws, as they do now. A percentage of people walking, and driving around now are illegally armed. These people will choose to ignore the laws, as they either feel unsafe (all my neighbors do), or are waiting for the Supreme Court to overturn them.

4.The same FENCES that receive and resell stolen property may also be providing sanitized guns to their suppliers. This is a huge criminal industry.

5. Since such laws are ill advised and go against the will of the people, the people who pass these laws are seen as demagogs and the power of the government to regulate the people declines. The reaction to the 19th Amendment shows that bans create crime and widespread disobedience when the public does not agree.

What is well proven, in places like Washington, DC with is former total weapons ban, is that bans are in effect condonement of widespread illegality. A good example of a small scale civil disobedience to law is that a large number of people with suspended driver's licenses or vehicle registration continue to drive. People are arrested for this in this area practically ever week.

Controlling criminals and the insane will work..

Lynn: You are 100% correct! The left-wing liberal politicians in the People's Republic of Maryland don't have a clue what will happen if they disarm the law-abiding citizens, ending self-defense. They are suppose to be "smart" people that are suppose to look out for their constituents and defend the Constitution and Amendments. The three politicians mentioned in the above story are among the worst of them. Again, they want to ban "illegal" guns........a truly "illegal" gun is a stolen gun which, by the way, are all that the criminal element uses. Since convicted hard-core criminals are not eligible to buy a firearm, the only thing the left-wing liberals will achieve by passing more gun control laws is to create more victims of violence because "We The People" will not have the means to defend ourselves against a violent felon with a stolen firearm, no matter what type firearm it is! The District of Corruption (no longer the District of Columbia) has ensnared the left-wing liberals of The People's Republic of Maryland! Pssssst......attention politicians.......the ONLY thing that will stop the violence is to make the ALREADY EXISTING laws against use of firearms in the commission of crimes is to take away the descretion of Judges, upon conviction, and make the sentence MANDATORY, and add another 5 years on the current sentences for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime. That, my friends, is our ONLY hope!

There are in fact some convicted criminals that apply for legal permits from time to time and are rejected. They probably never bothered to read the application and falsified the application, which is itself another crime.

Our ultra Right Wing State Police continue to deny carry permits in the spirit of Dictatorship and this creates a mass of people who are carrying illegally, and who are "under the radar." This is a typical conservative approach, deny people the right to protect themselves.

Regulation works, bans don't. When a law is unjust it is just ignored. There is a far larger issue here. Like the 19th Amendment a small minority pushed their extreme views onto the laws of the Country.

When the 21st Amendment repealed this ill conceived ban, the Criminal Syndicates, which were made HUGE during the ban period said "The worst thing we ever did was allow the repeal of prohibition."

The criminals who profit the most will enjoy any kind of gun ban. It's far easier to import guns, by the tens of hundreds of TONs than it is to import illegal drugs.

There was a SHIP seized on the Chesapeake Bay some time ago that was filled with marijuana. If assault rifles are banned, the prices will go up, the registrations will sink to ZERO and their availability will go up massively until the prices drop far below what they are not.

But US industries that supply them, will be hurt. Jobs and taxes will be lost because of a small minority.

Most of the recent gun bans were passed by Republican Controlled Congresses. The Brady bill was enacted during Reagan. And the Supreme Courts around the nation have consistently thrown them out.

With the Republican party disintegrating over their Norquist pledges, they cannot afford to lose their NRA support. It's unlikely that any significant laws can be passed, but there will be a lot of posturing.

The 11,000 killed with guns last year as significant in number but small. About 11,000 people were killed in automobiles, mostly SUVs, Pickup Trucks, and Vans. The big difference here is that $billion have been spent world wide to reduce automobile deaths, and yet this is one of the major causes of child deaths. Most child deaths occur in SUVs as cars are much safer.

Guns on the other hand are designed to kill. They are used in most of the 11,000 deaths by criminals to kill criminals. So many people are rightly indigent when innocents are killed and injured.

EVERY area that has had STRONG bans, like Washington DC which had a total weapons ban, in effect removes all regulation and all desire for a frightened populace to obey those laws. Washington DC during the ban was the (or close to) most dangerous city in the nation to be killed by gunfire. I've been there many times during the DAY and heard gunfire.

Public Health improvement will reduce the killing of innocents if regulations require Doctors, Lawyers, Priests and others to report dangerous people.

Never underestimate the incompetence of the States compared to Federal governance or the Counties compared to the State.

At one election in the past the State Police were used to force the Local Police to allow free voting. This state has a long history of corruption.

VEIP, although probably a waste of money is necessary. But the government has been distracted too long by the people trying to destroy it and has not updated pollution controls fast enough.

There is a race on between when the rising oceans will sink Baltimore or when the government will save the 400,000 plus lives lost each year to SOOT. It amazed me that tobacco as a product is still grown in the USA. It destroys the soil, and is known to kill people.

Why don't we have a total tobacco ban? Why don't we imprison those who farm it. Why don't we ban the sale of this poison in DRUG STORES where by implication it is harmless. It should be sold only to the addicted.

Susan, last summer a man was brandishing a gun in the middle of NYC. There were several persons wounded. The kicker, every single person wounded was shot by police officers. Having more weapons in a place where shootings are happening just increases the number of casualties.

Link is here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html

Don, you miss that those police officers were reprimanded for disregarding their training and reverting to the 'spray and pray' that no trained person ever uses when they are shooting at anything, whether that be a human being or an animal while hunting.

Dave, I am not advocating for the taking away of all guns, but I do question why anyone would ever need an assault weapon. Cars serve a useful purpose, require licensing and insurance. I can walk up to a gun dealer at a gun show in VA and all I need is cash to buy an assault weapon. There is a huge difference and the car argument is specious.

...and we were just getting to know each other.

Don, it is not for you to dictate to another person what they can and cannot have. I personally feel that no one needs a sports car, yet I am not calling or those to be banned.

It's past time to stop trying to dictate to people what they can and cannot own when they are law-abiding citizens and move on.

Her 'mentally unstable son' didn't appear to be that mentally unstable when she took him out shooting. That was nearly 1 1/2 years ago (according to a poster on CNN who supposedly knew the family) and the mental issues and attempt at trying to get him committed was in the past 3 months.

Polly if "assault" weapons were available in the 1700's our Founding Fathers who drafted the Second Amendment would have had them in their personal arsenal. The Second Amendment is not about hunting and target practice, it was drafted to ensure personal defense against a tyrannical government. If you believe our government would never purposely attack it's citizens for any reason they deem necessary then you really need to wake up! The NDAA has passed the Senate with a 98-0 vote. The Indefinite Detention Clause: The NDAA has become the most controversial element of President Obama's foreign policy. Section 1021 of the NDAA bill of 2012 allowed for the "indefinite detention of American citizens without due process at the discretion of the President." Please WAKE UP!!!

By a similar ignorant generalization, conservatives are pro-life but pro-death penalty and thus hypocrites.

Think before you type; otherwise you're just another troll spouting nonsense.

Brook seems to dismiss the difference between an innocent life and one found guilty by a jury of their peers most likely for the crime of murder with other circumstances.
Thus the moral decay of America continues.

Actually, that is only true of the most outspoken liberals. Most liberals I have met are anti-choice, believing that abortion is murder, and pro-gun for self-defense.

No, you don't. The weapon used in this case was an assault-styled, meaning look-like, weapon.

True assault weapons are select fire, where they do 3 round burst, full-auto or semi-auto fire.

The Bushmaster only does semi-auto (one trigger pull = one bullet) fire and uses a cartridge that is only a little more powerful than a .22 cartridge.

The gun was not the problem in this case and banning law-abiding citizens who already have to go through numerous hoops in order to own true assault weapons from having them isn't going to solve this issue.

Better mental health help and more of a willingness to institutionalize people would help to solve this issue.

And they produced our President and Rahm!

That's total bull...you can pull lots of lists; found one for 2012 from US News and World Report and then this one and while the same cities pop up the order of the list depends entirely upon what's considered "violent" or "dangerous". I also call BS on your assertion that Michigan has lax gun control laws - rifles and shotguns are pretty lax because Michigan is a big hunting state, but handgun regulations are strict, very strict. They aren't shooting each other in Flint or Detroit with deer rifles. Also your list apparently measures total violent crimes, not percentage of crimes per population which totally ignores almost any small city in California - Compton or Richmond, nor Neward, NJ which is extremely dangerous and where once again gun control laws are extremely strict. The only city from your list that matches up between most violent with lax gun control laws is St. Louis, but given the apparent lack of correlation in every other case that would certainly suggest coincidence rather than cause.

http://www.city-infos.com/25-most-dangerous-cities-according-to-fbi/

Steve please check the american thinker the article was written this past July on
the city of Chicago.

"American Stinker" Are you for real?? Most of the stuff written for American Stinker is fiction anyway.

Are human beings mentally ill from birth, or do they simply find themselves mentally ill at some random point in life... don't see this as any more of a solution than taking guns away....there will always be crazies doing damage...perhaps an all out police state would be the solution...

The right to carry a firearm concealed IS A RIGHT AND THE LAW ALSO. But the Maryland State Police have Illegally refused to issue carry permits. They also refuse to return the $140 (+or-) of those who applied when the Police were ORDERED to Obey the LAW. That ruling is under review to give Maryland Time to prepare an alternative law.

There are something in excess of 70,000+ applications that I am sure were mostly justified. The POLICE are NOT Judicial, they are enforcement. They have NO RIGHT to delay issuing permits, whatsoever.

What is worse, is that people from other states who paid their license fees, attended safety training, and who may be traveling through Maryland can be prosecuted for not knowing Maryland law. This too is under order to be changed.

So... what is the result of all this, the Police in approaching any person, anywhere cannot be sure that the person is unarmed. Since a failure to provide permits gives the police no idea who is armed. I doubt if Police officers are killed by people who have permits, though this is possible.

It would be safer for officers to KNOW who is licensed to be carrying, which the State Police are denying to all officers. Add gun registration to that permit everyone will be safer.

The Police in refusing their duty to the people have put them selves in even more danger due to a lack of sensible regulation.

Actually, in Connecticut, I don't believe the coroner's report lists the cause of death as "PEOPLE".

What killed those children and adults were multiple .223 rounds traveling at 3 times the speed of sound bouncing around in their bodies.

Where did he get the guns? How did he learn to use them? There's some blame to go around. Agreed single parenting is very tough but not using your best judgement and not looking for some help is inexcusable.

She let him play Call of Duty and gave him free access to her collection of guns. I know plenty of people that I don't trust at the range, and some of them are considered normal. The number of right wing crazies at the ranges are one reason I seldom go shooting. I don't trust them. Many of them can hardly walk and chew gum without falling over their tongues.

There are responsible parents who do not encourage their sons to play fantasy games involving the mass killing of people. Call of Duty is a fantastic game that deserves it's popularity. It glories killing people by the hundreds.

It's even worse in that regard, that something like a Charley Sheen spoof where the body count is added on the screen as a fires a 100 round belt from an M-60.

It was always going to devolve to the mother being ultimately responsible for all 27 deaths. Just as we as citizens are getting tired of Staffordshire Terriers killing children and adults, this society loves to blame but not to solve the issues.

You can ask of this criminal the same as can be asked for many, "Where was dad?"

No, the opposite is true. The more gun control, the fewer jobs will be in the USA.

Corporations that provide guns in the USA such as Beretta in Accokeek, MD and Sigarms in Exeter, NH, may close their plants as they are both European companies required by Military Contracts to build here.

Local dealers, many small businesses, will close. The GOP has not protected them.

Gun control isn't going to be limited to assault rifles. The people who write the laws are going to go after everything that has rapid change and/or large capacity magazines as they did before. This is a red herring issue. Quick reload is the issue not capacity. Watch "The Enforcer" and note how fast a 6 shot revolver can be reloaded.

Every gun that can be used to commit crimes will be affected. The most dangerous guns, are shotguns. A cheap single barrel shotgun, a hacksaw, and a vise can create the most dangerous gun ever made for room sweeping. When you can take out a dozen people at a shot, who cares about magazine capacity.

Almost all hunting weapons today have the ability to fire rapidly. It's only the media's ignorance to weapons that leads them to attack a specific type of weapon because they live in a world where image is all they know.

And they never learn. All efforts at gun controls have failed, for decades, everywhere. When did the British stop machine guns, grenades, and bombs from reaching the IRA... NEVER.

how do you feel about euthanasia?

And you don't find it amusing that people who are so eager to have the government force others to bring a zygote to term find the government saying "you shouldn't have the capacity to murder a dozen people a minute" to be overbearing?

At least try and be an equal-opportunity over-simplifier, if you feel the need to be so.

That would make sense Jag if the only purpose of a weapon was to kill people...and the government was arresting women and doctors who participated in abortions. Since neither is true that paragraph is worth about as much as what a puppy leaves on a newspaper.

I find amusement when some conservatives and 2nd Amendment bigots, who don't give a rat's patoot about other human beings, find an issue that they think can throw the "guilts" onto people who disagree them.

They think that their only means of self defense is a weapon that is lethal to another human being; support the death penalty; believe that their taxes should not support those that are less fortunate; yet they will take up the abortion issue...

And Honeygo all that would be great if the state of MD ever actually enforced the death penalty or that taxes didn't already support a series of entitlement programs for the less fortunate with associated spending among the highest that has ever existed in the history of mankind - the concern of course would be finding a way to temper spiraling debt that will certainly sink us all. Since both of those are true statements once again, most of what you write is worthy of the bottom of a birdcage. As far as the leftist handwringing and the obvious hypocrisy...

But what about the self defense? One could learn a martial art, get pepper spray, lobby for privately-owned Tasers, or the guns that shoot the nets. Why firearms, why .223 ammo that is designed to kill - what about knockdown power in a firearm instead? If someone attacks you, do you have to kill them?

Sounds more like playing God to me...

You assume the only use a firearm is for killing people? I don't...we have many weapons in the house everything from antique rifles to modern muzzle loaders. We also have a loaded handgun because we live in the country - somebody walks through that back door in the middle of the night and they're history. The problem with seizing guns is the only guns you'll get are those registered and owned legally because that's the only paper trail that exists. Tell you what Honeygo when somebody breaks into your house and you think a karate kick will be just as effective you just kick away...kick; maybe show em' an arm chop or just flex. I'm sure they'll run away in fear but I'll kinda stick with the handgun and a bullet. We'll see who gets the better result.

Karl - I'll let my comment stand. Non-lethal force is enough for home protection. Anything more is playing God and/or Judge & Jury.

Antiques are cool - I have an old German double-barrel shotgun, but with Damascus barrels I don't even think about trying to fire it. I just like the craftsmanship. It's a souvenir someone brought home from WWII.

I totally support a woman's right to control her own life and health. That includes abortion on demand, for the entire term. I support the proven science behind this, not the blatherings of people who believe wholeheartedly in wild fantasies.

The current rate of death of women due to unsafe abortions is from 70,000 to 80,000 per year. In the USA prior to legalization, at least 10,000 a year were dying. This had been much higher, but in the years prior to legalization abortions were performed constantly in hospitals and shielded (as they are still).

However, prior to the medical profession ignoring the spirit of the anti-abortion laws 17 Million women DIED in the USA. I don't care what the reason is that a woman wants an abortion. I care that she lives.

As many celebrities admitted past abortions, The laws began to change. The right wing takes the wrong approach on this as the left wing does on gun control. The results in both cases are needless deaths.

Neither talk about the real issues because the real issues are damaging to a MONEY base that they need to get elected; Churches oppose primary preventative of Abortion, which is education. This is pure evil.

Churches are also man's club for sexual perversions. They are paying $millions as their concealment of Pederasts and Rapists are continually revealed.

Pro-lifers kill both mother and child. They ruin 2 lives at once.

"They disarm us, then comes in the NWO!"

You watch too much bad TV.

I don't watch disinformation on our media CNN, FOX, all of them are private owned, they don't tell the truth. I believe we will have a NWO, our economy will collapse, there will be martial law. Do you not believe in any of these things? If not, I would say get off the TV and do some research. Not being rude.

No, have no food stored up or any bags packed or water stored up. When ever the world is going to end it's going to end, no one can say when that will happen. But we are looking at a tough road ahead. If you read my first post you would have seen I wrote, THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO END TOMORROW. :)

Yes, I wondered when the preppers would close in. Living in the last days. On second thought, as clever as you sound, you might need an AR15.

Denise, why did you change your screen name?

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Is that your point Phillip? It really is semantics, don't you think?

Phillip - Well, we do depend on lawmakers to translate for us when writing the laws.

Your argument, if you'll excuse the language, shoots quite a hole in the 1st Amendment...

A clip is another word for a haircut. See ya around.

Oh, and see Denise on the way out, she'll give you one with a multi-tool.

Frank - I know, Right? A magazine is a periodical full of still pictures, and a clip is video. How in the world can't people keep them straight. OBTW, a stripper is a dancer - are we going to outlaw them, too?

Gee, Eastsider - You know, I'm a firm believer that no move in WWE "wrestling" (more like rasseling) can be performed unilaterally. Not likely to get the intruder to go along with that, much less know what any of those choreographed moves are.

You spend a lot of time watching that "sport?"

Move to Idaho where it will be just you, the coyotes and your firearms.

Daggum it, that sneaky little majority rule thing is a pain. Let's find ways to prevent them from voting. Check.

And that is why the founders created the second amendment, to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

Chris that is false.

Frank, crawl back under your rock and take your racially divisive comments with you. The adults want to talk now.

Yes, but if I am not mistaken, that issue was resolved. Your constant harping on race is quite tiresome.

How can one of the purposes of the 2nd Amendment not be a guard against tyranny? Do you forget that this is how this country was founded - by rebelling against the tyranny and oppression from the King of England? If the government doesn't fear resistance from the citizens when it oversteps it's bounds, then it will continue to do so. Maybe that scenario never plays out in this country.....but what if it does?

I always appreciate the the perspectives of a SCROTUS.

As he was a 20 year old adult that apparently his mother trusted and took to shooting ranges to practice, I am sure he had easy access to the weapons. I would be equally sure she didn't know what he was contemplating.

You must have just watched the NRA head LaPierre speak!! Wow! What a coincidence, LaPierre almost said your exact words.

I guess we then go to day care centers, then movie theaters, then restaurants, then parks, then ball fields, then the Beach at Ocean City, then ski slopes, I'm sure you get my point. Where do you stop or do you?

I did not watch the NRA guy speak today. I did not know he said this.

LaPierre: "We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by armed Capitol Police officers.

Yet when it comes to the most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family — our children — we as a society leave them utterly defenseless, and the monsters and predators of this world know it and exploit it. That must change now!"

You can get the full text here Bill. Enjoy.

http://o.canada.com/2012/12/21/full-text-of-wayne-lapierres-speech-at-nra-press-conference-on-newtown-massacre/

I'll have to read that, thanks.

Wow, thanks for that link FIFA. I am very impressed with what he said. But sadly, I don't think many people will listen to his advice. Because, it appears, our country is in a battle against itself. The left and the right refuse to listen to each other. They just think the other side is wrong.

Yeah, Bill. Having armed militias patrol schools sounds like a great idea. It works so well in 3rd world countries. We obviously should be striving to mimic them instead of those dumb Euros and Asians.

This is sarcasm. Please understand that.

He didn't say "armed militias"

He said; "The NRA knows that there are millions of qualified active and retired police; active, reserve and retired military; security professionals; certified firefighters and rescue personnel; and an extraordinary corps of patriotic, trained qualified citizens to join with local school officials and police in devising a protection plan for every school." and "Our training programs are the most advanced in the world. That expertise must be brought to bear to protect our schools and our children now."

See.... I told you the left and the right don't get along.

I'm sorry, maybe you don't know what the definition of an armed militia is, because you just described it.

I must apologize to jag and Frank. I didn't see the sign about feeding....

So sorry.

Columbine High School had two armed guards. Didn't really matter did it?

Blah blah blah. Yes, we've heard this illogical, simplistic crap a hundred times. What you fail to understand (and I honestly can't see how) is that "law abiding citizens" with assault weapons are "law abiding" right up until the point where they murder dozens of children. Criminals, by definition, aren't born that way, nor do guns magically only stay in the hands of the "good guys". People like you give everyone the means to cause mass carnage and it's flat shameful.

According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, from 2007-2011, Maryland has averaged 4 deaths by rifle, per year. Nationally, during that time frame, the average is 370. Those figures don't even hold a candle to the amount of deaths caused by knives, and hands/feet. The real firearms "problem" is the use of handguns in everyday drug and gang violence, which absolutely DWARF the amount of deaths by rifle per year. Where is the outrage over that?

The shooter had the bad reaction to the drugs.

I did not expect that I would need to connect the dots for you. I'm sure you did not even read it since its not in line with your world view.

And many of these drugs that are over prescribed have warnings that indicate the risk of suicide...very good chance that drugs played a key role in this kids mindset...

Chris, you left out c), and had a semi-automatic weapon so they could shoot children and adults, just maybe true?

Frank, all the evidence is there, you need to read it. It has names, dates, types of drugs. I'd paste it in but the way you give Joe grief for that I figure I'll let to read it on your own.

But you don't care because you've made up your mind and no evidence will convince you.

So where's your research?

Buck, I'd rather be in a fight with a crazy guy on drugs who doesn't have an AR15. Wouldn't you agree with that? I'll take my chances against a nut with a knife long before I have to go up against .223 ammo coming at me at 3000 feet per second as fast as he can pull the trigger. At least I can run from the sucker with the knife, I'm pretty quick in that circumstance.

Normal guys are made crazy by certain drugs that are over prescribed as treatment for various perceived mental disorders or conditions... research ...

No way was this little twerp in any way normal, with or without drugs.

Speculating again...

LOL...you really don't do much research do you?

"There's no such thing as 'mental illness'"...another surrender statement by Frank...
boob..

And this is what is being repeated too often. Heavy weapons, kill as many as you can, then either shoot to the death with the cops or shoot yourself, as it appears most now do. The only question is when will the next one be on 24/7 news?

Could that be speculation..?

There was another shooting in PA today.

Despite the initial shock of the suggestion, I believe there should be some discussion about armed teachers. Doesn't have to be all, doesn't even have to be half. Hell, one, maybe two VOLUNTEERS in each school. Of course, they'd still need to be licensed by the state, and obtain proper and regular training.

Balt Observer- if you're saying that he didn't have the gall to get into a gunfight with police, wouldn't it follow that as soon as he met armed resistance (the teacher), he'd either give up or kill himself? Like I said, I think this is something that is worth exploring.

Matt, armed personnel (teachers or otherwise) sounds good on paper but in reality they would likely have no effect. If you're going to stop an armed intruder committed to doing harm, you effectively would have to be ready on a hair trigger. These situations unfold fast. How many teachers do you know that would be equipped to be ready for combat on such short notice?

Yes, they most certainly do unfold fast. The point that I didn't elaborate was, the armed personnel are there right when it happens. The police, unless a couple just happen to around the corner, are minutes away. I'm not saying that there will not be casualties with armed teachers present, but will there be 26? Personally, I haven't had this discussion with the teachers I know. Maybe there's a great deal, maybe there's none. But, that's all a part of this process. If the question isn't asked, we'll never know the answer.

Matt, what you fail to see in all of these encounters is the shooting is a surprise. So you put armed people at every school and hope they can stop the shooter. The shooter then moves to a day care center with 30 kids. Now what to you suggest. The shooter goes to the mall, now what do you suggest. The shooter shows up a the tailgate party at the football game, not what do you suggest. The only thing in common in all of these scenarios is the shooter shows up, unexpected, and armed to the teeth and doesn't care if he dies.

FIFA, what you've described are gun free zones, which are nothing more than hunting preserves for innocent people. The law abiding obey that "restriction" the criminals do not. I believe that quicker armed resistance can mitigate casualties. Will that be the case in reality? Who knows. Would you rather the gunman continue to shoot while waiting for the police, or would you want someone there already engaging the shooter? Take your example of being at the mall. If you decide to take cover, are you going to be content waiting for police, or are you going to be thankful that an armed citizen was there to stop things before it truly gets out of hand? Unfortunately, incidents like this is one of the perils of a free society. Once rights begin to be eroded/taken away, what keeps us from devolving into a complete police state?

Matt, two things. First, your suggestion is that a armed security guard would have had a chance against Lanza. That is a pipe dream. Have you ever seen or been on the other side of someone with an AR15 firing at you? Your behind will be kissing the floor. They have the element of surprise and the armor to take you down. Next they will all come with Kevlar head to toe?

Melt the semi-automatics. Otherwise just accept the outcome. Children and adults will continue to die at high rates. You will not stop the shooters. There are too many places with too many people where they have targets.

Let's get real. Even if a teacher has a loaded and ready to fire rifle strapped to her chest, how many typical teachers are going to ready to go from typical schooltime activities to full lethal combat mode? I have to be frank - the idea is ridiculous. Arm more people and you will have more accidents and rampages. More armed people is not the answer.

Maybe the guard doesn't wilt, maybe he does. Maybe the guard catches the shooter by surprise, maybe he doesn't. Maybe the shooter has body armor, maybe he doesn't. There's really not much else we can debate about it. I don't think melting the semi autos will be the answer. Sure, some people will turn them in willingly, but the people that don't......you'll just be sending the police on door to door suicide missions, and I don't think we want that either.

Well, let's put it this way. The Hassan guy was able shoot up a military facility and kill several before the soldiers put him down. If someone is determined to kill, they can take a knife and put it through your chest in front of a police station and there is nothing that anybody can do about it. Give that same nut a rapid fire gun/rifle and they can kill a lot more. It's the guns that enable more carnage.

Balt Observer and I agree on almost nothing. In this case, a little simple common sense tells you the element of surprise and superior weaponry kills a lot of people. My goodness, why is that so hard to understand?

So rather than finding out why people snap an go on a killing spree, we just make them work a bit harder.great plan.

What difference does it make why they snap? They'll continue snapping and killing. That will never stop as long as humans exist. And the better weapons they have access to, the more people they'll be able to kill.

Armed VOLUNTEERS in every school?

Wasn't George Zimmerman a volunteer? Is that what we get to protect out kids?

Certainly some would be dedicated folks with our kids best interest at heart. But there will be some that want to act out their fantasy of being a hero, getting the bad guy...

Sanchez, you get a clue. The Founding Fathers said that right in their papers that were left to be handed down. They only meant well-regulated to mean keeping damaged and dangerous because of that damaged or defective arms out of the hands of the general public.

Not likely since that information hasn't been released. But actually, I agree with you. The little twerp probably was taking Ritalin or something similar. So do thousands. So what?

If I didn't know better, having been called almost every name under the sun by Balt Observer, is he coming over to the dark side? Or is he an Imposter? Talk to us BO.

New York papers - sometimes blunt, but just as often true...

And the cost of your second amendment belief was 20 first graders and 7 adults on Dec 14, 2012. Invoice sent and paid. The next invoice is in the mail. You are welcome. Thank you for your business.

And the cost of your first amendment belief was 1.2 million American lives.
Invoice sent and paid. The next invoice is in the mail. You are welcome. Thank you for your business.

Joe. At least be original. You even copy pasta me! Aren't you embarrassed

If we are speaking about the Second Amendment, just where is that "well regulated militia" thafounding fathers talk about, huh? I think a big portion of that "Right" has been left out of all discussion, and reality, for that matter.
And, quite frankly, even if we all were allowed to run around with all the semi-automatic guns, 100 shot magazines, and machine guns, we could carry, they together couldn't hold off the military, with tanks, bazookas, aerial bombs, aircraft carriers, etc.
Your arguments are ridiculous.

Fifi...another full of crap statement..guess you are just completely full of crap...
consistent crap though....and the stories that you tell are consistent inconsistencies as well...

FIFA you blindly trust the story you have been spoon fed. You assume the government would never kill innocent children for political proposes, you have absolutely no idea of what the government is capable of. Research operation Gladio and stop watching so much television.

Bart, I don't believe that the US Military would ever go against civilians that they swore an oath to protect...I know of many that have said that they would have to reverse direction if given the order to engage US Citizens... the police state scenario using cops, not soldiers would be more likely.. in this case I believe that the majority would prevail easily..

Shawn, grow up. At your 30 +/- you know nothing. Never assume others are stupid. Unless 9/11 conspirator Buckaroo is telling you to, then you are screwed up as well. You appear to be in training.

Buck, then why any guns at all? You are speaking against your own argument. These weapons are only used against ourselves. The phrase "Well regulated militia" is written first. There is none in our country today.
We have the military, the civilian police, and millions of individuals, both good AND bad with a lot of uncontrolled firearms and ammunition at their disposal.

Bart " There is none in our country today." ....well regulated militia...you live a sheltered life, good for you...keep sheepin..sleepin..

OK, name it, Buck. What and where is that "well regulated militia" that will save us from the big, bad government?

Hey, Buck! I think I saw you Sunday in a Timonium Parking lot. You had wild gray hair and a beard. You held another poor citizen captive while you were ranting. I didn't get close as the poor guy was trying to inch his minivan away, but I heard "Sharia law", "sheeple" and "Obama" during the arm-waving tyrade. Did you then drive away in your gray Tercel with the peeling bumper stickers?

You're on your own Bart...regarding the militia...
That was you in the minivan...?!! OK you got me...}

Bart, the well regulated militia is the American people and 'well regulated' means that the guns in question that are sold to the American people are not defective in some way, not that the people's right to own some weapons should be infringed upon.

To clear the confusion of the ill informed.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1090340.html

"The National Guard, as a national entity, came into being in 1903 under the Dick Act, 32 Stat. 775, named for Congressman Charles Dick, who had fought with the Ohio Volunteer Infantry in Cuba and was chairman of the House Committee on Militia.   The Act was succinctly described in Perpich, 496 U.S. at 342, 110 S.Ct. at 2423, 110 L.Ed.2d at 323:

“The Dick Act divided the class of able-bodied male citizens between 18 and 45 years of age into an ‘organized militia’ to be known as the National Guard of the several States, and the remainder of which was then described as the ‘reserve militia,’ and which later statutes have termed the ‘unorganized militia.’   The statute created a table of organization for the National Guard conforming to that of the Regular Army, and provided that federal funds and Regular Army instructors should be used to train its members. Section 311(b) divides that militia into two classes:  the “organized militia,” which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia, and the “unorganized militia,” which consists of those members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.   State law makes a comparable classification.   See Maryland Code, Article 65, § 5."

Read the entire opinion and put to rest the old "militia" argument. Its a non starter.

"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

"the well regulated militia is the American people and 'well regulated' means that the guns in question that are sold to the American people are not defective in some way, "

What total nonsense! Get a clue and stay away form kids.

FIFA either you did not research operation Gladio because you do not want to wake up to the realities of what our government is capable of or you just don't care. Either way you are a fool.

Shawn, conspiracy theorists like yourself are a dime a dozen. We still know that Hollywood filmed the first landing on the moon in a studio and Armstrong never touched the dust. We know 9/11 was a Bush conspiracy to start a war. We know Obama was born in Kenya, Trump said so. We know the 16th amendment to the Consitution was never ratified properly, Buck said so. and on and on and on. We do know Cheney was drunk when he shot his hunting partner in the face, ah, some of us would like to believe so. We still know Hussein had those WMDs and sent them to Syria. I tire.

FIFA either you're a paid troll or super naive. That said it is a fact you're not knowledgeable in how the government actually operates domestically and abroad. You have a lot to say, unfortunately all your comments are biased with ignorance. Conspiracy theorist? Now that's hilarious, thanks for the chuckle. If I were a betting man, my money would be on you being a paid Troll......I'm just saying.

Shawn, I am neither a paid troll or naive. You appear to be a fool. Are you a 9/11 conspiracy theorist too like Bucky? Fess up Shawn, tell the truth. What other secrets do you have to share with us? Clearly the Patch is the place to do it, not the NY Times or the Washington Post. C'mon Shawn, just a little tidbit.

FIFA well now that you have admitted you're neither a "paid" troll or naive you must be an UNPAID troll. It's quite obvious your intention is to spread misinformation, though you do it so poorly it comes across as comedy. Thank you FIFA for that, in this day and age a good laugh is worth it's weight in gold.

Shawn, who would pay someone to post this type of thing?

"When you resort to pulling out the attack card, you lose."
"Never assume others are stupid."

"What a nut!"
"did you take a test to be a manager of a Walgreen's? Or have you got some of the California Medical juice you have been sipping?"
"Doug your ignorance is astounding."
"Are you really that ignorant? Serious question."
"Are you from this planet? Or did you just waken from a 100 year slumber?"
"Your point is to the near absurd."
"How's that for an idiotic explanation of your stupid thoughts?"
"as long as idiots like you continue to espouse your nonsense."
"Sadly, boy, little b emphasized"
"Does that help you out boy?"
"You seem to endorse the murder of first graders."
"Your idiotic point is?"
"Here comes Brook with his "normal" comments."
"you have no clue"
"Sorry Al. Are you a card carrying member of the WBC? Serious question."
"Is that you crybaby that deletes their comments?"
"Crybaby, your absurdity is only exceeded by Joe's idiocy"
"Back to Happy Hour Buck, Chris, Frank and Joe/Sanchez who apparently is spending the unhappy weekend back in jail after being out all week on work release"

"Lorna, I'm not going to insult you again"
"but the moron aka ATC is fair game"
"imbecile ATC, what grade school did you graduate from"
"your irrational postings"
"You write like you brain is running on empty."
"Your incoherent thoughts"
"Here come Buckaroo with this 9/11 conspiracy theories and income taxes are unconstitutional and he calls me dumb? C'mon Bucky, what else is in your bag of tricks"
"Bucky Baby, you want me to prove your nutty claims are false? You have it back asswards."
"At your 30 +/- you know nothing. Never assume others are stupid."
"teech, since you appear to be too immature and ignorant to know the difference,"
"Bucky, shut up. You must be a senile old man that can't read."
"as you continue to spew stupidity"
"You appear to be a fool."

Sanchez the Fool In Fallacious Advertising aka FIFA has admitted in a previous post the FIFA is not a paid troll. This is completely logical given FIFA's lack of intellect derived form FIFA's many misinformed posts.

Right in one. I lean exceptionally liberal on most things, but on the Second Amendment it's a period and done with, the right of the people to keep and bear arms (ANY arms in my opinion) shall not be infringed.

I would even go so far as to say that the various background check and ownership limitation laws are infringing on the Second Amendment because they ONLY apply to law-abiding citizens. Criminals will just ignore them and buy their arms on the black market.

More sheeple-talk, as if you are the only independent-minded, lucid individual in the body politic. You at the very core are a gun junkie out to protect your investment. You are not going to save the republic and you are not going to make a dent in violent crime. I think livestock of all sort would understand that.

Not more sheeple talk, 1ke. It is known that the more the civilian population is armed and the more that criminals have to fear being killed if they commit crimes, the more the crime rate (true crime, like forcible rape, murder, assault, etc.) goes down.

Stop trying to argue with those F A C T S. You just cannot do it.

Smart man..or woman..

Penelope, it's very difficult because in the past the apparatus to keep people in mental institutions has been.... well, abused is an understatement of the biggest kind.

Perhaps we do need to loosen those involuntary committal laws again, but if we do, I want the committals to be reviewed at least every 2 weeks by a judge.

A large portion of today's youth have been brought up taking prescribed government approved drugs to control behaviors....all of these over prescribed drugs have warning labels that indicate an increase in the chance of suicide...the numbing effect..I view these drugs as weapons of mass destruction far more than any gun could ever be..

What are today's perceived leaders doing about that..?

I can: the crappy economy. It is known that the worse the economy gets, especially for the poor and middle class, the more the crime rate goes up.

No, it isn't, FIFA. That has been debunked on SOOOOO many occasions that it is a non-starter and just a poo-stained lie.

"Domestic violence assaults involving a firearm are 12 times more likely to result in death than those involving other weapons or bodily force"

Source: Linda E. Saltzman, et al., Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults, 267 JAMA, 3043-3047 (1992). [↩]

Debunk that. You say something Christopher, it is almost always false.

I do believe FIFA is a state sponsored troll. And with FIFA's intimate knowledge of a future mass shooting FIFA should be apprehended by law enforcement for conspiring in it's own mind of a future mass shooting.

Shawn you have a BB for a brain and have yet to have a cogent thought.

FIFA, you need to wake up. That involves the ATTACKER getting shot in most cases, which they usually deserve it. Try telling the T R U T H about those numbers, please.

Bluntly, stop lying!

Struck a nerve huh FIFA?........I LOVE THAT!!! .....poor unpaid troll.

Kidwell, you have yet to make a factual post and verify it with a single link. You are like Old Faithful, you just spout off.

What a comparison! We have heavily armed troops protected by some of the best technology in the world and they are still dying at the hands of people making bombs out of cellphones.

55 of those 309 were non combat related. Some are still being made statistics by the shootings by those who we are training and consider allies.

All the gun laws in the State of Illinois and in Chicago have not put a dent in the gun crime there has it?

I have said over and over. Make it illegal to own or manufacture or import a semi-automatic weapon in this country. Make possession of one a 25 year no parole sentence. Pay for the jails as you begin to sweep up the criminals who will not voluntarily turn them in. Get the guns, keep your hunting rifles that use 5 round clips. Enjoy your hunting. Keep your revolver. Just stop providing weapons for people that want to hunt people.

FIFA, that will do absolutely nothing but making a bunch of law-abiding citizens who don't like the government dictating to them that they cannot own something when they are causing NO harm to anyone else into fiat of law criminals.

That is simply, period and done with, WRONG TO DO!

ANY use of a firearm in the commission of ANY crime warrants 15 years minimum no parole no good time and running consecutively with any other sentence.

DISCHARGE that firearm n the commission of ANY crime warrants 25 years minimum no parole no good time and running consecutively with any other sentence.

Any "reform" will effect the law abiding and not the criminal minded.
Pass the above law and it effects ONLY those willing to abuse their right to keep and bear.

And release all of the non violent drug offenders to make room.

Oops. I can "live" without your explanation but I would "love" to hear it.

Fewer households may have weapons but more weapons are added to the stockpile every year. More people born every year. I am convinced that a certain percentage of the people are nut jobs. More people, more nut jobs, more guns, more mass shootings.

I don't accept your premise regarding access to guns is more controlled. Since the expiration of the Brady bill states have been not been restricting access to guns, if anything they are easing access. No significant restrictive gun legislation has been passed since the expiration of the Brady bill I believe.

The only thing that expired was the assault wepons ban. The background checks and waiting periods are still in effect.

My point is that you convienently ignore all other factors and focus on the guns.

I focus on the guns because out of the gun comes the bullet that kills people. I am not a gun control advocate, I advocate the complete elimination of all semi-automatic weapons and magazines. You want a rifle or handgun that's fine, just use the bolt or pull back the hammer every time you wish to fire it. Will some still die, of course, but it will be a lot fewer.

Of course, as I also have stated, the above will not happen, but another Emilie Parker is waiting to die from a nut job with an assault weapon.

FIFA, with all due respect, a gun is an inanimate farking object. It does not get up on it's own and shoot someone.

No, the problem is not the guns, the problem is the people who use the guns to kill other people.

Also, remember that most of our guns crimes, sometimes labeled as much as 90% of them, are linked to the drug trade. Legalize that, you get rid of the impetus behind most of the drug-related shootings, those shootings disappear.

Guns are not the problem, just like common household chemicals would not be the problem if someone used them to make a goddamned bomb.

Christopher, we just disagree.

FIFA, we disagree because you don't want to see reality. Even if we got rid of ALL the guns on the planet, people would still kill other people.

That's a 'period and done with'. They would just be knife related, bomb related, axe related, etc.

Stop focusing on inanimate objects and start focusing on legalizing things that shouldn't be illegal, like the drug trade (which is where 90% of our shootings in America are coming from today) and start focusing on getting obviously severely mentally ill people off the streets.

Christopher, I let it go but you seem incapable as you continue your BS.

Twenty kids and seven adults are dead because of a semi-automatic weapon. What don't you understand about that? Are you too dense to understand that if he doesn't have that weapon those first grader and teachers are still alive. Don't give me your sanctimonious crap about defending oneself or the second amendment. If that was your child waiting to be executed by an AR-15 look-a-like firing high velocity military rounds I would grieve for her. I wish that Lanza would have come to the Sandy Hook with a bottle of bleach. We would still have some kids on this planet.

So just stuff it in your ear. We just disagree, like I said earlier. So go bother someone else that might listen to your crap.

Once again I must say that any attempt at reasonable debate with Fifi is like playing chess with a pigeon....No matter how good you are at chess the pigeon will walk all over the board, knock over the pieces, crap on it and then strut around with it's breast fluffed out as though he was the winner.....typical ongoing Patch Pigeon behavior....

Bucky, shut up. You must be a senile old man that can't read. You have become a puppy dog that followes me around. You are simply a silly old prepper. Go do your tax return.

Buck, I'll ask you again: That "well organized militia"? Where? Namely?...... and if your only description of that ("well organized") is that all that are manufactured and maintained to be properly working, they could be washing machines, microwave ovens or dishwashers!!!

A pair of Patch Pigeons...crapping up the threads together...

The "well regulated militia " part of the second amendment is an attempt to explain why the individual right is important.

Right on the money. All of those things are 'after the fact' things. We should be focusing on preventing gun crimes by not dictating to people what they can put into their own bodies (legalize the drug trade and make all drugs legal unless misused to drugged rape someone or something similar) and teaching children from very young that there is NEVER any reason to kill another person, save if they are trying to kill you at that very moment.

After the fact is a solution, one of the few offered here. Any preventative measures involving any particular type or style of firearm is not a solution at all. It is an attack on our rights.

Another fine example of the limit of discourse Frank is capable of. Stalking others to make his highly intellectual comments.

Here is the link.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28/three-cops-reportedly-shot-inside-new-jersey-police-station/?test=latestnews

AG Joe Curran was part of the team representing the State of Maryland in the above case. HE wrote about Maryland's Organized and Unorganized Militias in a few cases.

What Frank just posted is the limit of his intellectual ability.

It's already been illegal for many years, Sanchez. The problem is that the laws in question allow (quite sanely and legitimately) the transfer of weapons from person to person as long as neither person has a serious criminal record.

OT, of course if I was her and my accuser was dead, I might say the same thing.

"He [Spengler] apparently alleged that he had obtained the firearms used in the shooting from 'his neighbor’s daughter'" per the note left behind by the shooter.

That's the exact question and will be her defense I am sure. I'd like to see what the note says. But they justified charging her on what they have. One would think it will be a tough conviction to get.

Do they give out an NRA membership application at the same time?

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-08-16/news/0008160217_1_gun-safety-carroll-county-eddie-eagle

One would think he would be banned yet again for copy/pasta violations? But the editors really don't watch.

Fagin Insulse Fimicolous Autocoprophagy or FIFA comments

"When you resort to pulling out the attack card, you lose."
"Never assume others are stupid."

"What a nut!"
"did you take a test to be a manager of a Walgreen's? Or have you got some of the California Medical juice you have been sipping?"
"Doug your ignorance is astounding."
"Are you really that ignorant? Serious question."
"Are you from this planet? Or did you just waken from a 100 year slumber?"
"Your point is to the near absurd."
"How's that for an idiotic explanation of your stupid thoughts?"
"as long as idiots like you continue to espouse your nonsense."
"Sadly, boy, little b emphasized"
"Does that help you out boy?"
"You seem to endorse the murder of first graders."
"Your idiotic point is?"
"Here comes Brook with his "normal" comments."
"you have no clue"
"Sorry Al. Are you a card carrying member of the WBC? Serious question."
"Is that you crybaby that deletes their comments?"
"Crybaby, your absurdity is only exceeded by Joe's idiocy"

Perfect examples of the way that a Patch Pigeon craps up every thread that they perch on.....They are creations of the Patch editors that choose to allow it..
Lowers the integrity of Patch in general...great for Fifi, Frank and Bart...just to noname a few..

"During his Smiley & West radio show, Dr. Cornel West spoke on the disparity of media coverage and lack of gun control discussion when it comes to violence against minorities.

“We can’t just shed tears for those on the vanilla side of town. They are precious, but they are no less or more precious than our poor brothers and sisters on Indian reservations (who are killing each other) or be they black or brown or what have you,” West said.

“But it’s a good thing that we now have a discussion on gun control. We need one on drone control,” he continued, “not a peep, not a mumbling word when black folk get shot. But now, Newtown, Connecticut, vanilla side — low and behold we got a major conversation. That’s wonderful. Each life is precious but it just upsets me when we’re so deferential.”

Innocent African-Americans have been the target of equally unjust violence involving guns, in greater numbers than their white counterparts. Chicago, a city that President Barack Obama has called home for some time, has been under constant siege from increasing violence in recent years, having seen 700 children shot in 2010."

http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/12/26/cornel-west-talks-race-and-gun-control-we-cant-just-shed-tears-for-the-vanilla-side-of-town/

How is the work release coming Joe/Sanchez. You got off for this weekend Joe/Sanchez?

Do you EVER leave this website? Do you not have any other life? How lonely is it up there in Perry Hall? Looking at the number of your posts throughout the day every day it looks like YOU are the one confined somewhere Fifi. No family? Friends? Hobbies?
You get your kicks here insulting and disparaging people you are bigoted against?
Do you even get up to eat or relieve yourself of your crap that is not typed?
FIFI comments
1:53 pm on Saturday, December 29, 2012
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9:20 pm on Friday, December 28, 2012

More FIFI comments from wherever he is confined.

9:02 pm on Friday, December 28, 2012
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Admission will begin the healing ...you're almost there...still a little poo from you though...I'll give you my un waving rock solid statue support if you can just keep trying.
Hopefully as the new year progresses you might be able to as well..